Christian Forums

[Helen]

While we are discussing the Church, Im also wondering where the dog collar came from and the red pointy hats I saw the cardinals in recently at the popes death. Then theres the various ceremonial dresses that the clergy regulary wear.

All of the above put me off, because they are raising clergy above laity when infact we are ALL servants and brothers and sisters in Christ.

Where did these traditions come from and can they possibly be justified Biblically?


Helen
_________________
?Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, And grace my fears relieved; How precious did that grace appear, The hour I first believed!

[yeshua14]

Helen,

Is your question rhetorical?

I get the impression that you know where
they came from... tradition and culture....

Liking parables.... things like the dog collars
etc. that one disagrees with... I like to ask
myself...

in what way am I spiritually wearing a dog
collar, and what pointy red hats do I wear,
not necessarily physically, but spiritually...

And then you can go the other way with
it, what garments of Salvation am I wearing..

One sin in my life, I have come to recognize,
has been my failure to Sing unto the Lord,
in my own house. With abandon, and love,
and Joy. Psalm 101...

As to the "physical" question you ask... I
can only give an opinion, but I would guess,
to those who practice Catholocism(sp?) -- the
items have a symbolic meaning, which is
spiritual in nature.

If you saw the the Passion of the Christ, which
Gibson directed... there was that one scene
with that lady who played Satan with that older
looking infant..... and think I remember Gibson
saying, it was just to portray "evil" in some way
beyond our "normal" conceptions...

Such as when the Roman soldier flipped his hand,
and Christ who had been beated on His backside,
was now beaten on the frontside....

Not being Catholic, those are just somewhat
educated observations.

To answer the question more specifically...

The outward garments mean nothing, for the
Lord looks upon the heart. Whether I wear
a Pope's uniform, a Rabbi's uniform, my favorite
Rabbi or Teacher is the L-rd Jesus, Yeshua, the
Messiah...

The Lord sees my heart. So, a man or woman
in a uniform -- ignore it --- see the heart....

I was talking to two mormon missionaries the other
day. They came right up to my house, knocked on
the door. We had a good conversation, but I knew
where it was likely to end up...

The Holy Spirit helped me to "throw away" the
"mormon tag" and just relate to these two as
human beings, and reminded me, yeah, I need
them reminders, to Walk in Love, and that if I
did not love them, any "knowledge" I shared was
like a tinkling symbol.

Costumes. Postures. "Gay" postures. "Conservative"
postures... how much is a costume? "Fundamental"
postures....

And of course the costume which has really bit me
time time n again, that 'ole "pride" costume. Now there,
IS a dog collar, and a red pointy hat so to speak.

Being humbled is not much fun. It has taught me a
bible verse though: It is a fearful thing to fall into the
hands of the Living God.

HE don't wear no costume. HE is extremely gentle; but
HE chastens... and how can I love Helen today....

By answering at least one of her questions in the
manner which it was asked.

From the Catholic Word News:

At the actual ceremony of the consistory, the highlight comes when each prelate kneels before the Pope to receive the small, square, red silk hat which marks his status as Prince of the Church. (In practice, these red hats are almost never worn today after the consistory, although cardinals do continue to wear red vestments.) The red hats are bestowed after the new cardinals swear their fidelity to the Roman Pontiff and his successors and to the Church. There is no Mass during this ceremony.

Now what "Prince of the Church" means is a whole nuther question.

What swearing means, I'm not sure, as that verse of scripture reminds
me not to swear by heaven or the earth... but rather let your yea by
yea and your nay nay....

And anybody who has read this far, is probably saying, zip it bud, so,
zip the mouth and out...

[Thegirlvix]

Hi yeshua14,
I enjoyed your reply to Helen, thank you!