Christian Forums

[Jaybo]

[Helen]

Jenn, you are right about the dogs under the table, and Im sorry I used it haphazardly. I agree too that we should never except a tainted Gospel that is not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

But I dont know how you square the error/hersey distinction. Both Charles Spurgeon and Calvin were in error, and serious error too at times. Infact Calvin would of persecuted us if he was alive today for not baptisting babies who he believed were regenerate.

How then can we say that one error is heresy and another just an understandable mistake. What these great men show us in their error is that the old nature still resides within them. As it will reside in all of Gods Children until they are freed from their flesh at death. Spurgeon wrote against celebrating Christmas, yet encouraged his congregation to give to the fairy grotto, for children from the orphanage. He saw the greater good.

Jenn Im not trying to be obtuse, and your right in some respects, to me the Gospel is not confusing, I do understand fully the Doctrine of Soveriegn Grace, what I find much more difficult to accept is that others who dont see what is clearly written in Scripture in respect of this matter are not in Christ.

I was as sure of this as you appear to be at one time, but my doubts about it have been around for awhile. Fueled mostly by what I see in some of those who are in error, ie: Gods Spirit at work.

As far as teachers and leaders, this is a different matter althogether , we should never ever teach that which we are unable to teach, and this is particulary important in respect of the Gospel.

Pauls letter to the Corinthians carries a strong warning to those who regard themselves teachers, warning them heed what they build on the foundations of Christ. We are the building, only God the builder.

The Gospel should never be undermined by our lack of competance. I for one have no plans of ever ever teaching.


I am away now for a few days, I hope you will stick around and we can discuss this more.

Helen
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?Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, And grace my fears relieved; How precious did that grace appear, The hour I first believed!

[Otto]

I hesitate to tread on this, but...
There seems to have been introduced a level of complexity, due to the proximity, of some intimately related issues. The dynamic of interaction between these issues is a subject itself influenced, by a constellation of variables, making the whole mess seem unpredictable at least, & portentiously ominous at worst.
You don't want to hear the military description ..."cluster ~"
Anyway,...
Ladies, ya gotta consider pretext & subtext as well as context, in these situations.
I mean fer instance...
How much of the Holy Spirit's leading is going to overwhelm our insistance on:
1.Time & Place
2.Order of "Service"
3.etc., ad infi-nicolaitane-nitum!

Why the angst over more than the 2 or 3 mentioned as "gathered in His name" so to speak, fulfilling our
"need"
for "fellowship" & "corporate worship"?

Don't get me wrong, ... I don't mean to mock or otherwise denigrate what is real, but let's not 'kid' ourselves abut what is Spirit led & God authored, & then expect divine results from what is in essence, our own efforts.

The committment to constant prayer commands a broader sense of what prayer is. So too with worship. These are basic elemernts of our personal relationship with our Creator, & when they are maintenanced with loving care, in a kind-of-an "involuntary" way, I personaly, anyway, find the whole thing joyous.
It's like... just doin' what you "know" you were created to do.
You know, "to thine own self be true".
Well, I guess I'm sayin', that if you realize & value the quality of being "hidden in Christ", you are content with trusting Him, not needing to know everything beforehand(time & place, whosoever, etc.,), but accomodating your evangelistic ambitions to the circumstance, not turning every opportunity into a confrontation, but in fact, the reverse - turning every confrontation into an opportunity.
I better quit. I had a long shift tonight, I'm celebrating it's end in the 'spirit' of Proverbs31:6 -
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.


Let it be duly noted:
Otto's heart is (at this moment) no longer heavy!

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This isn't the end of the world, but you can see it from here.